Thursday, 30 June 2016

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Y Pedwarau


Foel Fawr (SN 900 904)

This is the seventh post under the heading of Significant Name Changes, and the following details are in respect of a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 18th April 2014.

The hill is part of the Pumlumon range, which is an extensive group of hills situated in the north-western part of mid and west Wales, and is positioned between the small communities of Penffordd-las (Staylittle) to the north-west and Llawr-y-glyn to the east north-east, with the reservoir of Llyn Clywedog to the hill’s south.

The Trimble GeoXH 6000 gathering data at the summit of Foel Fawr

The hill appeared in the 400m P30 list on Geoff Crowder’s v-g.me website under the name Bryn yr Hwrdd, this name appears on the Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 map over 1 km north-westward from this hill’s summit and is consistently placed on Ordnance Survey maps applicable to land centred at SN 899 911.  This listing of hills is now co-authored with Aled Williams and known as Y Pedwarau.    

During my early hill listing I used the map name that appeared closest to the summit of the listed hill or which seemed most appropriate for the hill, without due consideration for its positional value, doing so can perpetuate the use of inappropriate names.  This is not a practice that I now advocate as with a little research either conducted locally or historically a more appropriate name for the hill can usually be found.


Bryn yr Hwrdd
    421m
    SN900904
    136
  214/215


The name this hill is now listed by in Y Pedwarau (Europeaklist and Haroldstreet 2013) is Foel Fawr, and this was derived from Ordnance Survey enlarged mapping that appears on the Geograph website.  This mapping became publicly available after the original P30 lists were published on Geoff’s v-g.me website.

Extract from the Ordnance Survey enlarged map on the Geograph website
Since the publication of these P30 lists there have been a number of historical Ordnance Survey maps made available online, including the series of Six-Inch maps on the National Library of Scotland website, much of the place-name information on these maps were the source for what now appears on the Ordnance Survey enlarged mapping on the Geograph website.

Extract from the Ordnance Survey Six-Inch map published in 1885

The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Pumlumon

Name:  Foel Fawr

Previously Listed Name:  Bryn yr Hwrdd 

Summit Height:  422.9m (converted to OSGM15)

OS 1:50,000 map:  136

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 90029 90416 
 
Drop:  44.1m




Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (June 2016)




Tuesday, 28 June 2016

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Y Pellennig, Yr Uchafion and 600m Twmpau


Bwa’r Llyn (SN 798 214)

This is the sixth post under the heading of Significant Name Changes, and the following details are in respect of a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 14th April 2014.

The hill is situated in Y Mynydd Du, which is a group of hills forming the western part of the Brecon Beacons National Park (Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog), and is relatively remote for a Welsh hill with the nearest towns being Ystradgynlais to the south and Llanymddwfri (Landovery) to the north.

Bwa'r Llyn (SN 798 214)

The hill first made an appearance in a hill list in the late 1920’s when Arthur St George Walsh listed it as Bannau Sir Gaer, and was also included by Ted Moss as Banau Sir Gaer Point W in The Two-Thousands of Wales in the 1940 Rucksack Club Journal.

Unfortunately these early listings are now almost forgotten, but their use of 50ft, either as a prominence value or as a single ring contour, has been used in more recent times in its 15m whole numbered metric equivalent, one example being by John and Anne Nuttall within their guide to The Mountains of England and Wales Volume 1 Wales.  However, this hill was not included in their first edition to the Welsh mountains and was only later included due to details sent them after a rudimentary survey of the hill had taken place.

This hill’s prominence was surveyed using a rudimentary staff five times over four visits, with the details forwarded to John and Anne Nuttall who subsequently surveyed the hill using their own rudimentary method.  Importantly the details of the surveys were sent to John and Anne under the hill name of Waun Lefrith, which is the name that appears closest to this hill’s summit on Ordnance Survey maps of the day.

This hill’s inclusion as a Nuttall was confirmed via a letter and it made its appearance under the name of Waun Lefrith in the 2nd Edition of their guide which was published in 1999.

Hill list authors are prone to list a hill by the name that appears nearest to its summit on Ordnance Survey maps, without much consideration for its local or historical confirmation.  However, place-name data can be improved by asking local people and examining historical documents, and since this hill’s inclusion as a Nuttall extensive place-name research has taken place for Y Mynydd Du and the details included in Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales. 

The name used for this hill in Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales (Europeaklist, Haroldstreet, v-g.me and Mapping Mountains 2015) is Bwa’r Llyn.  This name is based on local enquiry and historical Ordnance Survey maps.

   
The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Y Mynydd Du

Name:  Bwa’r Llyn

Previously Listed Name:  Waun Lefrith 

Summit Height:  676.2m (converted to OSGM15)

OS 1:50,000 map:  160

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 79820 21451 
 
Drop:  15.9m




Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (June 2016)


Sunday, 26 June 2016

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Y Pellennig, Yr Uchafion and 700m Twmpau


Trwsgl (SH 664 679)

This is the fifth post under the heading of Significant Name Changes, and the following details are in respect of a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 10th March 2014.

The hill is situated in the Carneddau, which is a group of hills forming the northern boundary of Eryri (Snowdonia).  This hill range takes in a number of 3,000ft peaks and offers excellent hill walking.  The hill forms a part of the westerly ridge descending from Carnedd Uchaf (SH 686 669) and is positioned to the east north-east of Bethesda and to the south of Abergwyngregyn.

Trwsgl (SH 664 679)

The hill was first listed by Arthur St George Walsh in his late 1920’s unpublished compilation to The 2000-footers of England and Wales, and first made an appearance in a published hill list in the 1940 Rucksack Club Journal in Ted Moss’s list to The-Two Thousands of Wales.  These early listings included this hill under the composition of Y Drosgl and Drosgl respectively, both followed the composition of this hill’s name on maps of the day.

The changes to the name composition for this hill on Ordnance Survey and Bartholomew maps are detailed below:

OS 1816 Draft Surveyors Map:  Y Trwsgol

OS 1841 One-Inch ‘Old Series’ Map:  Y Drosgl

OS 1888 Six-Inch Map:  Drosgol

OS 1901 Six-Inch Map:  Drosgl

Bartholomew 1920’s Half-Inch:  Y Drosgl


Excerpt from the 1816 Ordnance Survey Draft Surveyors Map

Hill list authors usually accept the name given the hill on the map of the day, without further enquiries being made.  However, as with numerical data where there are now independent surveyors producing accurate heights for hills that are fed in to hill lists, there are also people undertaking extensive place-name research that produce more appropriate names for hills than those currently in use and these are also fed in to hill lists.  This research is based on local enquiry and historical documentation, and as with accurate surveyed heights that improve data within listings, place-name research does likewise.

In the case of this hill it was Aled who conducted extensive local enquiries with the people who work the land where this hill is situated and whose families have lived in this area for generations.  During this research he found that the preferred pronunciation of the hill’s name is Trwsgl which favours that first documented by the Ordnance Survey with the variation that the definite article ‘Y’ has been dropped.

This hill has subsequently been listed under the name of Trwsgl in Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales (Europeaklist, Haroldstreet, v-g.me and Mapping Mountains 2015) with the following explanation appearing in the booklet version of the list:

Names given for the hills in this list follow correct Welsh usage and are taken from a variety of sources, not just the paper and online mapping produced by the Ordnance Survey.  OS maps of Wales are not always correct in the naming of a hill, or may give a spelling that does not conform to correct Welsh usage.  Importantly, if no name has been discovered for a hill from any source, it is referred to as Pt. xxm (Pt. for ‘Point’ or ‘Pwynt’), using the generally accepted convention, rather than making up a bogus name for which there is no historical or local evidence of use.

An example of this thoughtful naming policy is highlighted by the 757m hill at grid reference SH 663 679, which is listed in this booklet as ‘Trwsgl’.  The hill appears under the name ‘Drosgl’ in the Welsh Nuttalls and Hewitts hill lists respectively, following the composition of the name that appears on contemporary OS maps.  The translation of this name into English is rendered as ‘rough land’ and both trosgl (y drosgl) and trwsgl are accepted variations of the same adjective.  However, ‘Trwsgl’ was the form originally recorded for this hill by the OS in 1816 and extensive research conducted for this listing found that this is still the most used form locally.  We believe that instances like this enrich the listing and provide an element of historical interest to the publication.


The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Carneddau

Name:  Trwsgl

Previously Listed Name:  Drosgl
 
Summit Height:  756.9m (converted to OSGM15)

OS 1:50,000 map:  115

Summit Grid Reference:  SH 66387 67984 
 
Drop:  36.6m




Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (June 2016)



Friday, 24 June 2016

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – 300m Twmpau


Gelli Hir (SN 999 883)

This is the fourth post under the heading of Significant Name Changes, and the following details are in respect of a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 7th February 2014 and also on the 2nd May 2014 along with the Leica GS15.

The hill is situated in the Pumlumon range, which is an extensive group of hills in the northern part of mid Wales.  The hill is positioned to the south-west of Caersws and to the north-east of Llanidloes, with the small community of Llandinam and the Afon Hafren (River Severn) to its east.

Gelli Hir (SN 999 883)

The hill appeared in the 300m P30 list on Geoff Crowder’s  v-g.me website under the name of; Rhosfawr, which at that time was taken as the name of the hill, however this is the name of a farm which is situated to the west of the hill’s summit.


Rhosfawr
    308m
    SN999884
    136
  214
    Clem/Yeaman. Twin top.


The name this hill is now listed by is Gelli Hir, this name can be translated as long grove, and this was derived from examination of the Ordnance Survey Historical 1:25,000 map as well as the Tithe map, coupled with tentative details from local enquiries.  The term Tithe map is generally given to a map of a Welsh or English parish or township and which was prepared after the 1836 Tithe Commutation Act.  This act allowed tithes to be paid in cash rather than goods.  The Tithe maps gave names of owners and occupiers of land in each parish and importantly for place-name research they also included the name of enclosed land.  This enclosed land is usually based on a field system, however not every field is given a name, but many are and especially so in Wales.

The Ordnance Survey Historical 1:25,000 map is probably the best OS map for placement of names relating to hills and their features, on this map Gelli Hir appears close to the summit of this hill and following its upper northerly ridge

When I first surveyed this hill I made place-name enquiries with a local resident to the south south-east of the hill.  The details are given below:


After visiting the summit of Y Gaer at SO 013 873, I descended to the farm of Cefn and surprised Graham Pugh who was heading to the farm yard from a large barn full of recently born lambs.  Graham is aged 53 and had lived in the local area for 25 years and at the farm of Cefn for 20 years, he originally comes from Staylittle / Penffordd-las (SN 887 920).  He can speak Welsh but said that he gets his ‘rights’ and ‘lefts’ muddled up and told me about a visit to a market where he was given directions and he couldn’t remember if the word meant left or right, we both chuckled at this.  I believe this was due to a lack of Welsh being spoken in the area where Graham now lives, so his use of the language is not on a daily basis.  I explained where I had come from and where I was heading.  We were soon talking about the name of the hill.

Graham told me he didn’t really know a name for this hill, I asked if he ever referred to the hill by any name and he said that he just calls it Top of the Bwlch.  The farm of Bwlch is situated at SN 995 875, it seems the summit of the hill is on their land.  I asked if he had ever heard the name of Gelli Hir in relation to this hill.  He then said that this was funny as he’d had a recent conversation with the person from Coedmawr farm, who had just bought the land going up to the top of this hill from the other (north-west) side and they had called it Gelli something.  The name of Gelli Hir (Gelli-hir on older maps) appears on current maps just below the summit of this hill.  However, on older OS maps this name appears as a ‘ridge’ name going across the top of the hill and down its northern ridge.


Graham Pugh of Cefn farm

Place-name research can be similar to fitting pieces of a giant jigsaw together, each piece is important, but many times the pieces tried (the information given) seem as if they do not fit.  However, each piece of information is important and can be assessed against other information found at a later date.  And this was so with this hill’s name, as I already knew that the Historical 1:25,000 map has the name of Gelli Hir following the upper northern ridge of this hill, as this map is by far the most precise produced by the Ordnance Survey for place-name position I was inclined to believe that the name of Gelli Hir was appropriate to use for this hill, and the information given by Graham Pugh, although only tentative, was also substantive when coupled with the placement of this name on the old 1:25,000 map.  I hoped that the Tithe map would substantiate the use of Gelli Hir for this hill’s name.

Unfortunately the Tithe map for this area is almost unintelligible, however the number 2096 is given to the adjoining land to where the summit of this hill is situated, this number can be cross referenced against the apportionments; it is these apportionments that give the name of the owner or occupier of the land as well as the name of the land.  The land given the number of 2096 is named as Allotment on the Tithe map, and importantly the next number; 2097, which is probably the adjoined land, is named as Gelli hir and is described as Pasture; these details are listed under the county named as Montgomery and in the parish of Llandinam.


Accessing information on the Tithe map is simplified by the use of a split screen enabling the summit to be pinpointed on the map on the right and for the same point to appear on the Tithe map on the left.  Unfortunately in this instance the Tithe map is almost unintelligible, however the number 2096 is given to the adjoined land


2096 is named as 'Allotment' with 2097 named as Gelli hir

The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Pumlumon

Name:  Gelli Hir

Previously Listed Name:  Rhosfawr
 
Summit Height:  307.2m (converted to OSGM15)

OS 1:50,000 map:  136

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 99902 88383 
   
Drop:  124m



For details on the first survey and the second survey of Gelli Hir

Myrddyn Phillips (June 2016)








Wednesday, 22 June 2016

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – 300m Twmpau


Y Gaer (SO 013 873)

This is the third post under the heading of Significant Name Changes, and the following details are in respect of a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 7th February 2014 and also on the 2nd May 2014 along with the Leica GS15.

The hill is situated in the Pumlumon range, which is an extensive group of hills in the northern part of mid Wales.  The hill is positioned to the south of Caersws and to the east north-east of Llanidloes, with the small community of Llandinam at its base beside the Afon Hafren (River Severn) to its north-east.

Y Gaer (SO 013 873)

The hill appeared in the 300m P30 list on Geoff Crowder’s  v-g.me website under the name of; Coed Mawr, with an accompanying note stating; Name from wood to the east.  The name of Coed Mawr is printed in large letters on current Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 Landranger maps and takes in the whole eastern side of this hill where a mixed wood plantation is situated.  The name of Coed Mawr also appears on current Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer maps and is placed near to the summit of this hill.


Coed Mawr
   308m
   SO013874
   136
  214
   Clem/Yeaman.  Twin top. Name from wood to the East.


The name this hill is now listed by is Y Gaer, and this was derived from local enquiry and from the Tithe map.  The term Tithe map is generally given to a map of a Welsh or English parish or township and which was prepared after the 1836 Tithe Commutation Act.  This act allowed tithes to be paid in cash rather than goods.  The Tithe maps gave names of owners and occupiers of land in each parish and importantly for place-name research they also included the name of enclosed land.  This enclosed land is usually based on a field system, however not every field is given a name, but many are and especially so in Wales.

Place name research can be a problematic occupation as the prioritised chose of a name can depend upon personal judgement where evaluation of the research at hand is assessed, and in the case of this hill’s name the judgement has been based on local enquiries and details from the Tithe map.

When I first surveyed this hill I made place-name enquiries with local residents to the north and to the south of the hill.  These are given below:


To the north of the hill:

I wanted to visit a Twin Hump and survey both summits and the intervening bwlch and hopefully meet one or two locals, or call at one or two farms on the way to ask about names of the hills.

My ascent route from the outskirts of Llandinam went up the Waen Lane (map and local spelling).  As I was nearing the end of the lane before venturing on to fields I came across a man trying to get a long ladder off the roof of a van.  I offered to help, he declined with a smile and we started talking.  His name is Malcolm Lanham (aged 68), a good Welsh name was his tongue in cheek remark when he introduced himself.  He had lived in Llandinam all his life and couldn’t speak Welsh, although he did have an understanding of some words.  I asked the name of the hill that I was heading up.

Malcolm told me that the name of the hill is the Waen Hill.  I commented upon the name of the lane that Malcolm’s bungalow is built next to and he said the Waen Lane.  He then mentioned that the Waen Farm is further on around the lane and up the hill.  I presume this old farm is situated at SO 016 883 as the word Waen appears on the map at this position.  I asked about the spelling of Waen / Waun and it was confirmed as Waen, I mentioned the use of ‘u’ in modern Cymraeg but Malcolm did not pass further comment; he just smiled and sort of shrugged his shoulders.  Not really a demonstration of ignorance, just one of not knowing.  I asked if he had ever heard another name for the hill, his reply was ‘no, it’s known as the Waen Hill’.  I also asked if this is the name that the hill is known by in Llandinam and he said ‘yes’.  I then asked about a name that appears on the map; ‘Coed Mawr’, Malcolm said that this was a patch of forestry and not the name of the hill; he also knew that the name of the Waen Hill did not appear on the map.




To the south of the hill:

After visiting the summit at SO 013 873, I descended to the farm of Cefn and surprised Graham Pugh who was heading to the farm yard from a large barn full of recently born lambs.  Graham is aged 53 and had lived in the local area for 25 years and at the farm of Cefn for 20 years, he originally comes from Staylittle / Penffordd-las (SN 887 920).  He can speak Welsh but said that he gets his ‘rights’ and ‘lefts’ muddled up and told me about a visit to a market where he was given directions and he couldn’t remember if the word meant left or right, we both chuckled at this.  I believe this was due to a lack of Welsh being spoken in the area where Graham now lives, so his use of the language is not on a daily basis.  I explained where I had come from and where I was heading.  We were soon talking about the name of the hill.

Graham gave me the name of The Gaer without prompting and it almost matches a name that appears close to the summit of this hill on the map, almost as the name that does appear on the map is ‘Y Gaer’, which is marked on the map at SO 015 878.  I asked about the name of ‘Coed Mawr’, Graham said that he’d only ever heard this name in relation to the farm of Coedmawr which is positioned at SN 990 888.  He told me that Coed Mawr is not the name of the hill.

Graham Pugh of Cefn farm

It is not uncommon to find one hill known by different names in opposing valleys, where this happens all one can do is note each name and conduct further research.  When I consulted the Tithe map the enclosed land where the summit of this hill is situated is given the number of 533 with the number of 2047 also appearing in the corner of this land, these numbers can be cross referenced against the apportionments; it is these apportionments that give the name of the owner or occupier of the land as well as the name of the land.  The land where the summit of this hill is situated is named as Cae Dirge and is described as Meadow; it appears in the county named as Montgomery and in the parish of Llandinam.


Accessing information on the Tithe map is simplified by the use of a split screen enabling the summit to be pinpointed on the map on the right and for the same point to appear on the Tithe map on the left

Importantly the Tithe map associates the land where the summit of this hill is situated as being a part of the land of Gaer and not that of Waen.  Both are old farms with that of Gaer no longer appearing on current Ordnance Survey maps but its remains are situated at approximately SO 016 880, whilst Waen is positioned at SO 016 883.

The land where the summit of this hill is situated is named as Cae Dirge on the Tithe map


The corner of this land is also named as a part of Cae Dirge

Although the hill is known from its northern side as Waen Hill, the land adjoined to its summit area is associated with the Gaer, and this is the name given me on the southern side of the hill, therefore it is being listed as Y Gaer, with the caveat that the land where its summit is situated is named as Cae Dirge on the Tithe map.  


The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Pumlumon

Name:  Y Gaer

Previously Listed Name:  Coed Mawr 

Summit Height:  307.1m (converted to OSGM15)

OS 1:50,000 map:  136

Summit Grid Reference:  SO 01350 87380  

Drop:  91.4m



For details on the first survey and the second survey of Y Gaer

Myrddyn Phillips (June 2016)


Monday, 20 June 2016

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – 200m Twmpau


Gallt y Celyn (SH 811 542)

This is the second post under the heading of Significant Name Changes, and the following details are in respect of a hill whose summit was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 24th December 2013 and whose bwlch was surveyed on the 23rd February 2016.

The Trimble GeoXH 6000 gathering data at the summit of Gallt y Celyn

The hill is situated in the group of hills known as Mynydd Hiraethog, and is positioned to the north of the Afon Conwy and the A5 road and between the towns of Betws-y-coed to its north-west, Pentrefoelas to its south-east and Llanrwst to its north.

The hill appeared in the Sub List that accompanied the 200m P30 list on Geoff Crowder’s v-g.me website and was later added to the P30 list when drop values based on interpolation were included.  It was then reclassified to a Sub-Twmpau based on its summit survey and finally reinstated as a P30 Twmpau after its bwlch was surveyed.

The hill originally appeared in this Sub List under an invented name; Bryn Graeanllyn, with an accompanying note stating; Name from buildings to the West.  As was my liking during my early hill listing I thought it appropriate to invent a name for a hill if no name seemed to appear for it on Ordnance Survey maps of the day.  My preference was to use farm names and put Pen, Bryn or Moel in front of them.  This is not a practice that I now advocate as with a little research either conducted locally or historically an appropriate name for the hill can usually be found.


Bryn Graeanllyn
    258m
    SH811542
    116
  18
    Name from buildings to the West


The name this hill is now listed by is Gallt y Celyn and this was derived from the Tithe map.  The term Tithe map is generally given to a map of a Welsh or English parish or township and which was prepared after the 1836 Tithe Commutation Act.  This act allowed tithes to be paid in cash rather than goods.  The Tithe maps gave names of owners and occupiers of land in each parish and importantly for place-name research they also included the name of enclosed land.  This enclosed land is usually based on a field system, however not every field is given a name, but many are and especially so in Wales.

The enclosed land where the summit of Gallt y Celyn is situated is given the number of 2434 on the Tithe map, this can be cross referenced against the apportionments; it is these apportionments that give the name of the owner or occupier of the land as well as the name of the land.  The land where the summit of this hill is situated is named as Allotment on Gallt y Celyn and is described as Rocky Pasture; it appears in the county named as Denbigh.

The enclosed land is given the number of 2434 on the Tithe map

When cross referenced in the apportionments the enclosed land is named as part of Gallt y Celyn

This is an example where the practice of transferring the map name given to a lower heighted hill to that of a near higher hill that is unnamed on current Ordnance Survey maps, and then using a directional name for the lower hill based on the name now given to the higher hill is foolhardy.  The details of this example appear below:

Dinas Mawr    254.0m summit at SH 808 539, converted to OSGM15

Gallt y Celyn    257.6m summit at SH 811 542, converted to OSGM15


The hill at SH 808 539 is named as Dinas Mawr on current Ordnance Survey maps, whereas that of Gallt y Celyn is unnamed on current Ordnance Survey maps.  By transferring the name of the lower hill to the higher hill and then using a directional name for the lower hill, you get:

Dinas Mawr SW Top at SH 808 539

Dinas Mawr at SH 811 542

Both of these names are now inappropriate for the hill they are given to.  This is how these hills are currently listed in Mark Jackson’s Tumps.  If only the same amount of time were spent on place-name data when compared to the time spent on numerical data the contents within all hill lists would improve dramatically.



The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Mynydd Hiraethog

Name:  Gallt y Celyn

Previously Listed Name:  Bryn Graeanllyn 

Summit Height:  257.6m (converted to OSGM15)

OS 1:50,000 map:  116

Summit Grid Reference:  SH 81121 54259  

Drop:  30.1m



For details on the summit survey and the bwlch survey of Gallt y Celyn.

Myrddyn Phillips (June 2016)